with Josh Driver

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Cultural alignment is so important right now. Otherwise, if we started deviating from that, I think that our technology will show that bifurcation of our original culture, versus more of an analytical one.
— Josh Driver

In this episode, I talk with Josh Driver, the founder and CEO of, a web platform designed to become a virtual foundation for companies of all sizes to drip their toe in or level up their giving to the community or causes or charities they care about. works to manage volunteer time off, employee and workplace giving, or any other type of interaction a company can provide, via grants, sponsorships, or donations. records all of that and report to tell a good brand story.

Josh shares how was the first company in Indiana to be both a B Corporation and a Domestic Benefit Corporation, and the strategy behind filing as such. has an interface for companies and their employees, as well as about 150 nonprofit organizations who are able to self-onboard to the platform. And they are also currently in rapid development to finish their SaaS platform to make it easier for companies to self-onboard as well.

Topics In The Episode

  • Current status as a company

  • Company and employee experience on the platform

  • Creating a custom experience for big customers

  • Importance of bringing on a COO

  • Areas of focus as a B-Corp

  • Creating a pitch deck based on your market differentiation

Get in Touch


Mike Kelly: Welcome to the Startup Competitors podcast. Today we have Josh Driver, who's the founder and CEO of Selflessly. Josh, welcome.

Josh Driver: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Mike Kelly: All right, man. Let's start with the pitch for Selflessly.

Josh Driver: Sure. Selflessly is a web platform designed to become a virtual foundation for companies of all sizes to either dip their toe in or level up their giving back to the community or cause and charities they care about. So we manage volunteer time off employee and workplace giving, and then any other type of interaction that a company can provide grants, sponsorships, product donation, and then record all of that and give them a great report to tell a good brand story.

Mike Kelly: And to make that a little bit more tangible right now. So if I'm a company, which I am, what is my experience with like when I sign up with Selflessly? Just walk through maybe getting the first project live and, and what that looks like with you guys?

Josh Driver: Sure. So a company designates an admin who's going to control the platform, and they upload their employees. Employees get a welcome email, and we let them drive. More often than not employees are already affiliated with a cause or a charitable campaign. And so instead of us dictating that they need to go plant trees in 95 degree weather, let's let them go where they want to go and donate where they want to donate and let the employer be the empowerment mechanism for them to do so. So we let employees create their own profile. They can search nonprofits that are in our system and interact with those or they can go out and work with the ones that they currently are and record their work in the system.

Mike Kelly: Awesome. Then paint a picture of current status for somebody who's listening. Any vanity metrics you can share that could be number of nonprofits in the system, number of companies, projects done, tracked, anything?

Josh Driver: Sure. We have one big enterprise customer that's using the app in a custom way. And then we have a little over 40 companies that are in our Beta queue that are lightly getting in as new functionality rolls out. And then the nonprofits have been self on-boarding since last year, we're up to about 150 of those.

Mike Kelly: Nice. Very good.

Josh Driver: Yes. So we're working right now on a rapid development sprint to finish out our SAS platform where people can swipe a credit card and go and not have to be on the other end of the phone with me. And I can stay out of my way and they can go rock it out in direction they want. We should hopefully be done with that in July, knock on wood.

Mike Kelly: Awesome. Then you, you've bootstrapped up to this point, correct?

Josh Driver: Correct.

Mike Kelly: Awesome. And you're in the midst of your first round?

Josh Driver: Yes, a couple of weeks in.

Mike Kelly: There's whiskeys after the show, don't worry.

Josh Driver: Who says there wasn't before. Yes. In January, I took on a chief operating officer with awesome finance background that helped get me out of my head and we were able to create that Excel template that we needed to have to show revenue and forecasts and everything. So we just recently began that journey.

Mike Kelly: Good. I won't make you go any deeper into that. But there are a couple of other things unique to your company that I would like to hit. So you're a B Corp, correct?

Josh Driver: Yep.

Mike Kelly: What's that been like?

Josh Driver: It's been great. I would say originally, it was a little bit of a delay in the growth of the organization because we had to do some education here. We are the first Indiana domestic benefit corp and then also a certified B Corp. There are only about 220 companies in the US that are both. We're the first one in the state of Indiana.

Mike Kelly: Well, maybe somebody doesn't know what a B Corp is. I feel like I know what that one is. Real quick, what's B Corp?

Josh Driver: So the B Corp is a certification by a nonprofit called B Lab that has a 200-point assessment based on different buckets that your company can take on. And you have to get at least 80 of those 200 to become certified. So you'll see some companies that have a LEED certified building that is floating on a cloud and completely off the grid, which is awesome. Not in the budget for us this time. So we focus largely on employment policy, open book accounting, communication channels directly to leadership, and more transparency the process. So it wasn't as big of a hurdle for us.

Mike Kelly: And then the other one that I'm not familiar with, say it again, domestic-

Josh Driver: Domestic benefit corporation.

Mike Kelly: What does that mean?

Josh Driver: So Indiana is one of 32 states that offer a benefit corporation as a filing. If you are going out to create an LLC or a C Corp, a benefit Corp is another option. So essentially what that means from a taxation perspective, it's the same as a C Corp, same procedure, tax rates, there's no real change there. But what it does allow us to do is, of course, operating a fiduciary responsibility. But also we have some leeway to consider stakeholders, our community, and what type of impact our decisions can make. From previous history and other startups essentially, creates a framework for our board, our investors and our employees to have a seat at the table and be able to make choices that can benefit our bottom line. But at the same time, we also can consider what other types of impact we can make by choosing one vendor over another or having a liquidity event at this time versus later. And so at the high level, that's where the benefit, no pun intended, for us comes, is that we can consider moving our app into a hydroelectric power data center for a little bit more cost and be able to make those decisions without having to have a quorum and a litigation about it. But I think-

Mike Kelly: Are there hydro electric data centers, is that a thing?

Josh Driver: There are.

Mike Kelly: Fantastic.

Josh Driver: And that's where our app was, actually.

Mike Kelly: Seriously?

Josh Driver: Yeah.

Mike Kelly: Who's that with?

Josh Driver: So it's a GreenGeeks. Actually, AWS also has that option, but it's buried way down into their infrastructure. So it's very difficult to find, but they have one and it costs us maybe eight bucks more a month. It's not very expensive.

Mike Kelly: That's very cool. All right, learned something new, learned a couple of new things there. You covered a little bit of the strategy on why those two. I mean, I think just in explaining what that is, you've done a good job when talking a little bit about strategy, about why that's important to you. How have you found it? Now that you've been fundraising for a couple of months, have you found that to be a topic of conversation? Do investors understand that? Are they afraid of that? Do they feel like, "Wait, you're asking me to invest in a not-for-profit? If you can talk to me a little bit about that?

Josh Driver: So when we first started to look at investment as our funding mechanism back in, I would say, mid 2018, our conversations more often than not were, "What is this? So you take profit and just slide it on fire for the world?" No, that is not the case.

Mike Kelly: I know what I'm picking out of this for the headline in all the blog posts. Thank you for that.

Josh Driver: Perfect. We do not set anything on fire intentionally. We had to take a break and really create a pitch deck that was focused around that. So when we went out for our B Corp certification, we were the smallest, youngest company that had done it. And it was a learning curve for them as well, because they didn't know how to compensate for instead of being in our own office, we're in a co-working space. And how does that affect an assessment value. But we were able to create a pitch deck, and also had to create a second pitch deck that explain from an investor perspective what that means. And so where we saved money up front by being small, because the cost of it scales based on how big your company and what your revenue is, we're able to not have to spend a bunch of money to convert into a B Corp mentality. We can build a business model around it. But with the liquidity events and having more investor buy in and then normal C Corp, those were things we had to talk through and be very intentional.

Josh Driver: Honestly, in previous experience, if we ever had board member or an investor friction within themselves, it had, at times, been almost fatal for the company in general. So obviously, the goal is you want everybody to be happy; from an ambassador, from a board, from an employment. So this really, I would say, makes it a little more clear that, "Hey, when you're joining this team and being a part of this, leave your ego at the door and let's get down and figure out how to solve the problems and get through these things." And so we've used that as a litmus test when we've been looking for investment, is, "Is this going to be a person that is a silent check rider versus someone that we actually would like to have in a mentor or a more active role?" And that cultural alignment, I believe, is so important right now. Otherwise, if we start deviating from that, I think that our technology will show that bifurcation of our original culture versus more of an analytical one. But I think with having all of this aligned, it can be more beneficial and profitable by having everybody in the same mindset.

Mike Kelly: Awesome. Thanks. I appreciate that diversion. This won't all be about that.

Josh Driver: Oh, it's fine.

Mike Kelly: I'm like genuinely curious.

Josh Driver: Oh, yeah. It's important, because I think we're going to see a trend, whether it's latest legislatively or in a transparency way that more companies are going to need to start migrating into that direction. I think that this framework is really more so than a mandated thing. It's more of how to-- what are the good things that businesses can be doing, and from being in a company that has had a toxic work environment at times or employee distrust of the corporation? These things, putting them in place I think are helpful to get over those hurdles, which means more we have a better growth roadmap by holding ourselves accountable in that way.

Mike Kelly: I want to go back to current status. So one big enterprise client, who's on a slightly customized version, which that's what enterprise means. So you're safe, and then 40-ish Beta clients coming on board now. Talk a little bit about rollout strategy. So forecast for me, as best you can, the next 3, 6, 12 months. What do you think go to market looks like?

Josh Driver: For us, we strategically picked these Beta companies, did a mix of different industries, different employees sizes, full and part time employees. Because we wanted to see what are our most viable ideal customer would be when we first started, asking what our target market was like for profit companies, period, full stop. So now I pick and choose people that had either zero social impact policies in place, or some that have been doing it largely manual for a while up to a few that have a platform they've either built in house or paying a considerable amount of money for. And so being able to sit down with those groups and figure out what they needed, I think was so important for us to do.

Josh Driver: It definitely prolonged a lot of the growth of the organization. But I think that we can accelerate in a better way now that we've learned from them instead of just taking money wherever it was thrown at us. And so once we wrap up this kind of final MVP feedback mechanism, we can really hit the ground running. At our previous company, we started a channel partnership growth model and I believe that's what we'll do in this situation.

Mike Kelly: Can you describe that a little bit?

Josh Driver: The nice thing about the philanthropic industry is that people are a wildly loyal. And worked at a previous a technology company that we leveraged fundraising consultants and nonprofit management groups, and these people who have a huge book of business that have their take on what they think this space needs to look like, they just don't have a tool to track it and prove their point. And so similar with a platform like Selflessly, there are different ways to look at what a company's role is in corporate social responsibility. And I'm not going to claim that I have all the answers and it's not a one size fits all.

Josh Driver: Being able to leverage consultants or HR management companies, benefits providers, we can be a mix of functionality. People can offer the volunteer time off, like they would have 401k. And if somebody has a specific plan that they do consulting work on, we can track that on the back end, and that partnership or that partner can go out and export that and help kick doors down to get people activated or ride the wave of it. But more and more of those consultants and support services are looking for a tool to measure that. So it just makes so much financial sense for us to grow in that model versus big sales team traveling all over the place doing direct sales.

Mike Kelly: Right on. When you think of competition for Selflessly, who comes to mind?

Josh Driver: The big rock star platform is called Benevity, and they've been around for a long time. They too are a certified B Corp, based out of Australia. And they really got this workplace giving momentum started. They've done a great job of grabbing every fortune 300 company on the face of the earth and with a fortune 300 price to match. And what they do is great, but it's just not accessible for 90% of companies out there. Looking at the momentum of even startups that are just opening their doors, they're already starting to create some modicum of a philanthropic program for their culture. And so we want to create a platform that focuses on how could we be of service at day one all the way up to your IPO. But Benevity is definitely an idol. They've just done a great job. But I think it's time to open the floodgates and let other people participate too.

Josh Driver: As far as other competitors, some focus on just the workplace giving. You think of Match My Donation, I think is one. And then the volunteer management side, which is like a volunteer match platform. But we're getting to a point now where everything needs to start centralizing. And so we aim to be able to centralize those different channels into one dashboard, so that we're not pulling from everywhere else. Big enterprise company here in town, and I won't mention names, but uses seven platforms to replicate what we do in one.

Mike Kelly: That's a big value prop.

Josh Driver: Yeah. They're spending a little bit of cash on that. So we can consolidate a lot of that. With technology out there, it makes it easier to do.

Mike Kelly: Again, you're always free to punt on some of these questions. So when I hear that big enterprise client paying for seven platforms today, the sales guy in me also hears that's potentially seven people who all have their pet project or ego/reputation wrapped up in the choice to bring this in. And so now it's seven people have to move in a sales cycle to get them to want to come to my platform. You're nodding. So that's true? When I think of selling into that account, that's almost more scary to me, even though there's a value prop, it's like, "Well shoot, now instead of just selling one person, I have to go sell seven."

Josh Driver: Sure. So in this case, for this … this is an outlier using seven different platforms. In their case, it has been two people managing the seven. The technologies don't speak to each other, there's no way to connect them. And so those two people are begging for us to get moving.

Mike Kelly: That's awesome.

Josh Driver: They're going crazy. And that's the case, too, for a lot of companies using this higher price software, there hasn't been really any competition. It's you get to a point where you have to just get something. So there's just always been the same old platform there. And I think that it's becoming such a focus now that you start looking at downmarket, and also not forcing people to be in an enterprise contract, do it on your terms and at least get started without having to speak to somebody. It's time for some new technology to get out there and rethink this problem. Too many ships are passing through the night here to not want to try to fix that.

Mike Kelly: How long do you think you'll be in Beta? When do you think you'll be a little bit more open to folks hopping on swiping the credit card and going?

Josh Driver: So technically, we'll allow people to start self on-boarding at the same time we have the Beta customers in. But looking at the feedback of our Betas, we want to be able to have a really good presence towards the end of the year when people are wrapping up their year and when they do end of year giving. But conversely, people are also focusing on closing out their books at the end of the year. So we'll onboard through the end of 2019 in a curated fashion, let people get through the holidays. And then 2020 … gosh, can't believe I said 2020, is when we're really going to hit that hypergrowth and open up the floodgates, so to speak.

Mike Kelly: That's awesome. Talk a little bit about I guess for your ideal … and maybe you don't know who your ideal size company is right now, if it's a startup scale up or a mid-sized business, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on what that employee experience looks in 2020? So what's your ideal employee experience? "I'm working in a company that's using Selflessly." What does that mean? Is that, "I'm getting a monthly email"? Like what's my call-to-action and/or how do I participate?

Josh Driver: So it depends largely on the policies, leadership, or HR setup. And we have several features in there that allow a company to make decisions on what's right for their business. I may be headcount heavy or light, I may be revenue heavy or maybe revenue light. So we don't want to force anybody into a situation to where they're being forced to give away a month of volunteer hours to each employee or-

Mike Kelly: When we're already behind.

Josh Driver: And $1,000 employee match or something. So step one is really for the leader or the admin to look at their company and see what's feasible. And there is no right answers that you can only do so much. But on the employee side, we ask these companies to survey their employees, "What are your expectations of your boss to provide here? Do you want us to just give you eight hours and go run off and we'll see you when you see it? Or do you want to be more involved with creating a more holistic plan for the company?" So it can be as simple as getting a welcome email, completing your profile and then getting into the system, seeing what hours you have available, how much of your match is left, what type of impact you've already made and go on about your day. Or we can curate a town to, "Here's some opportunities, here's some that are requiring your specific skillset." And nudge people that may not have been involved in a cause before with opportunities that might match their profile.

Josh Driver: Sometimes we have to meet people where they are. And planting a tree in the middle of summer isn't necessarily for everyone. So we've intentionally had nonprofits join the discussion and force them to really think through their volunteer opportunities. And what could they be refining out that the person who may not want to be planting trees during the summer but would generate a million email templates for them; how do we influence them to get on board with the organization? So that's really the service that we provide now as a benefit to nonprofits, as some light kind of strategy work about, "Let's rethink this big manual, heavy, hot labor opportunity and think about ways that people could help you from their desk at their office.

Mike Kelly: When did you decide you wanted to launch this business?

Josh Driver: Back in 2015, I started my own nonprofit that largely relied on corporate sponsors and the business community to make it sustainable. And at the same time, I was working at a publicly traded tech company that wanted to start a foundation. What a better way to support myself and start a foundation that could support my nonprofit on behalf of this company? When we got everything squared away and set up the foundation, one of the first opportunities that we had created was a shoo-in for my organization.

Josh Driver: When we got down to the process of trying to organize resources around that nonprofit, I was unable to pitch to me to get money to me from me on behalf of the company. That is a conflict of interest, but there was so much alignment there that we should have been able to figure out a way to make that work. And the logistics of that coordination just got so overbearing and frustrating to a point. And it wasn't just with my nonprofit, with several others too, where we really could have helped in several ways, but it just got too messy and a lot of time on our part to coordinate. So that was in 2015.

Josh Driver: So from 2015 till about 2017, I just kept page of my book of like, "Man, this really sucks, there's got to be a better way. And just started to get bigger and bigger, so then I would group them under headings of different things that this could fall into. Then right about midway through 2017 is where I'm like, "Wow, I've basically road mapped out a SAS platform. Unknowingly, to me.".

Mike Kelly: Shit, I mean, it happens to all of us. We're just taking notes and suddenly-

Josh Driver: "Oh, we got a business model?"

Mike Kelly: That's weird.

Josh Driver: I guess I'll stop watching Game of Thrones for a minute and start a company. So it got to a point where I wanted to really think about what could I be spinning up? And we had a corporate innovation program at the company I was working for and started to think like, "Maybe I could position this to where the company would get involved?" And I just had an opportunity to talk about social innovation right in mid 2017. And I had just enough, either wine or bourbon at an event to say, "Well, I have this kind of idea." And the mayor was there. He said, "Perfect, we'll use it. We're ready to go. It's July 30th, shouldn't take you very long to build. Let's launch at September 1st. Oh, and we're not paying for it." That's not exactly what he said in case Joe listens to this. But gave me an opportunity to build a component of what I wanted to do and then test it for no cost … well, cost to me, but I could create a brand and I could really put it out there that, "Hey, I'm going to build something that helps the city of Indianapolis but at the same time, do people even buy in to these pain points that I'm having?"

Josh Driver: We launched with Indy due day in September of 2017. And had people come in, they registered for volunteer opportunities. I got a coupon for sunglass warehouse so that they could be outside have some sunglasses. And we calculate it on the back end how much money in taxpayer savings we were accumulating by having volunteers go out, clean up graffiti, pick up trash, plant trees, et cetera. And so at the same time created the Selflessly brand and put it out there and got enough interest to where it made sense for me to really focus on that in more of a full time capacity in 2018.

Mike Kelly: Between now and that mid 2017 timeframe, what do you think are some of the biggest things you've learned from a business product perspective?

Josh Driver: I think that the first thing I learned is there is a difference between strategic and authentic philanthropy. And so I started to ruffle some feathers out of the gates. Because corporate philanthropy has largely been leveraged by one organization; there's kind of that one platform, that one program that everybody uses, and you stick to that, you don't leave the family. And employees have started to push back on those types of programs. The day of payroll deduction is over. And I realized early in 2018, I was starting to shake up this space, and started to see people feeling a little concerned about my personal view on what corporate philanthropy needed to become.

Josh Driver: I don't like to use pivot and disrupt and pick your term, but it's been time to figure out a new way to do this. And so I wanted to not only be helping through technology, but also demonstrating what that looks like from a company perspective. So becoming that B Corp out of the gates and sticking to it was a huge learning experience. Patagonia, Ben and Jerry's, Kickstarter, these are huge B Corps, but what resonates in Denver and on the coast was not resonating here, yet.

Josh Driver: We had come out of the gate as a B Corp and I didn't want to walk that back, but at a loss to me because now I had to stop my own company and teach people or be very visible about what that looks like. That was a learning experience. I had expected that people wouldn't be as concerned about what a B Corp structure looks like, and "Oh, you're just doing the right thing." And to me, that's the right thing. But instead, "No, I have to justify this." Wanting to give people the right benefits and diversity and inclusion, those types of things were things that were met with a little bit of resistance at first. And I think that that's partially because there have been companies that have run under the umbrella of being a kind, philanthropic, great community partner. But then down the road you find out there's all kinds of the issues behind it.

Josh Driver: There was a little bit of skepticism about this whole process. And I think we've come in at the tail end of some of that skepticism, and all we can do is just be visible and transparent about the direction we go, certainly, making mistakes along the way. The giving problem is very much a corporate thing, but also a personal thing, as we talk to people with more big estates and more liquidity, their views on what philanthropy looks like is much different than somebody that's living in a studio apartment downtown and doesn't have a car and is looking to stay in Indy for a little bit and then travel, you know, very different, the generational aspects of it.

Josh Driver: We uncovered an issue of what that looks like and what some of the perspective is from the different generations in the workplace and how maybe they view each other. So we got into some deep psychological stuff that we hadn't anticipated. But I think it was beneficial for us to go through that storm to build the right solution for both sides of that discussion.

Mike Kelly: Any other big lessons learned for you on that so far on that journey?

Josh Driver: I think also, people are always going to get excited about what you're doing and that's great, but also making sure that you keep yourself in check. I went and built the first version of this app myself as a non developer. We had a big false start because the app just couldn't handle even the first Beta company. And it was embarrassing. It was a company that's a friend of mine and we rolled out something that just wasn't ready for prime time. And so I take pride in my work. So that was a huge lesson. I think conversely, on the other side, we should have done a better job of checking in with ourselves as a team about what is involved in a start up and what type of sacrifices we would need to give up externally. And where that changes our career trajectory is or where we expect it to be at a certain age.

Josh Driver: When you hear the unicorn stories, they're like, "We got all this investment and we were making six figures as a CEO and we were pre revenue." You hear those things and like, "Man, that's great. I want to get a part of that." But that isn't really the case. You have to be aware of the concessions that you're going to have to make over time and if it's worth it. I'm fortunately in a position where we don't have kids and we don't have a lot of external responsibilities that we would have to give up to be able to do this. Whereas, it's something you really have to think of. I grew up as a latchkey kid with two entrepreneurial parents, like I'm hardwired for this. Whereas it's not necessarily the mentality of everybody and that's okay.

Josh Driver: I would say check in with yourself, especially in that first year, to just make sure that you're on track professionally, but also personally in where you want to be overall. I think that there's a mental wellness component there that you need to always keep in the back of your mind at least that, "Hey, am I still taking care of myself as I'm taking care of my company?" Those were things that we had to learn the hard way. We had a co-founder change, and there were just times where it was a rough day. I think everyone should get a bulldog, they help. But that's my own bias. There just sometimes you just want to come home and squeeze, squeeze a furry animal. You just have to make sure you have those safeguards in place because it could be detrimental in the future.

Mike Kelly: So much great perspective in there, thank you, seriously. Just get a bulldog, German Shepherds. Totally agree.

Josh Driver: All right, now you sound like my mother-in-law.

Mike Kelly: I want to go back to something you said just a few minutes ago in the generational perspectives in giving, and some of the trends you've seen there. Which you didn't volunteer, but I'm going to put you on the spot. I'd love your anecdotal read of what are some of those generational differences and giving trends and things like that. It's certainly something I think of as an employer, like, how do we want to give as a company? It's something that for me, personally, has changed over time. How do I even think of giving? And so I'd love any sort of riff you can do on what some of those trends are and what you've seen.

Josh Driver: Corporate philanthropy as an idea had started in the early 1900s, and it is evolved over time. And of course, who wouldn't think about how can I strategically give to help out an organization, but also it could be beneficial for my sales, for PR. There's nothing wrong with that. And I'm not saying that that's bad at all. But I think over time, as we've seen some nonprofits get a little into some gray area financially and how things are running, people have started to hit the guide stars and start doing their own due diligence on a nonprofit. So what used to be just, "Here's my 20 bucks, Godspeed," is now, "Where's my $20 going? How much of that goes to this? How much of it goes to there?" That's asking a lot of a nonprofit for $20. But it is what it is.

Josh Driver: I think the larger nonprofits are starting to really feel the burden of having to be transparent about that. Unrestricted funds are a scarlet letter in philanthropy. But where I think we've had several companies that we've talked to over the last year that have their pillars, strategic pillars that we work on, we focus on these three causes, or not even necessarily at an organizational level. Like we want kids to be in school, we want homeless people to get off the street, noble and not saying that that's wrong. But if I have an employee that's on the board of a dog rescue that is actively trying to get dogs out of puppy mills, or to get dogs off the street, I'm not sure that as an employer, I have the right to tell them that my pillar is more important than what they value.

Josh Driver: More often, these employees are volunteering their time, but at night. But they want to get more involved, but they can't do it without taking PTO. And if they have a family or other things going on, it just becomes so difficult. It'd be lovely for us to create an app that makes philanthropy subconscious. So if I have a Sunday off, instead of catching up on my TV shows, or my books, or the laundry, I want to go out and plant trees. I'd love to get to that place. But it's just very difficult to do that. We're all working more hours, have less time to spend with our families and friends. From the younger generations entering the workplace, they're holding their leadership at their employer to tasks saying, "What are you going to do about climate change? What are you going to do about these issues?"

Josh Driver: We've recommended to our Beta companies is to listen to them and look at your strategic plan, but also allocate some of that on behalf of the employees and what they feel is important. I think that that's a very important connection to have. Deloitte published a millennial impact report late last year, that 87% of consumers now are doing research when they're considering what product they're going to purchase. And are more likely to purchase some more expensive product from a company that's doing charitable things in a direction they'd like. It's about 50% of millennials believe their companies operating in an ethical way.

Mike Kelly: Ooh.

Josh Driver: Millennials are less likely to say the company long term turnover and the costs associated. So how do we create a vetting mechanism to show that ethical transparency? And it's not something can be done in house. Because there's always going to be that, "All right, so our marketing department said …"

Mike Kelly: No, no, trust me.

Josh Driver: No, I swear we do do it. Whereas we're actually vetting that we're a third party, we're cause agnostic. People need to have that kind of vetting resource in that and this is verified a nonprofit, this is a verified, this donation or contribution has been made. And the employees want to have insight into that more than just an annual report. And that's a big ask of a company in general. You have to hire a team to almost manage that. By creating our platform to be able to self manage that, and it only is successful if it's engaged with through our process, we can stop that, "Did you really plant all those trees? Did you really do that?"

Josh Driver: Then also measuring too, it's not just the big dollar figure anymore? It's now what is that dollar figure getting me? At the end of the year, you can see big corporate gifts of 25 k plus that are given to a nonprofit. But what does that 25K do? And maybe not necessarily the leadership that cares about what the 25K does, but the employees want to know that, "All right, so you donated to this nonprofit that isn't in my top five, how many trees did that plant?"

Mike Kelly: What did you get out of that?

Josh Driver: Yeah. "How many mouths did that feed?" So those are things that companies are now having to report to consumers and to their employees, whether they like it or not. Hopefully, they like it. And I think that more are starting to be okay with it. But that transparency and the granular metrics are a direction that we have to go. And that's what's being demanded.

Mike Kelly: That is an awesome place to wrap. Let's call it there. So if a company would like to get on the Selflessly platform and start offering what you have, how do they do that?

Josh Driver: is our website. There's a launch program link. Just hit the button that pings one of our team members to give you a call and we'll get you going.

Mike Kelly: Awesome. Are you active on the social media? So if somebody wanted to follow you, where can they do that?

Josh Driver: We are @giveselflessly on all the social medias or Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook.

Mike Kelly: Yeah, that's all of them.

Josh Driver: I'm too old for Snapchat.

Mike Kelly: No, no, you know that, that's all of them.

Josh Driver: Too old, I don't have anything to deliver there. But yup, that's how you find us.

Mike Kelly: Man, thank you so much.

Josh Driver: Yeah, thank you.

Mike Kelly: This was great. I learned a couple of new things here. I'm very excited.

Josh Driver: Yeah, thanks.