Olio with Ben Forrest


In this episode, I talk with Ben Forrest, founder, and CEO of Olio. In the healthcare technology industry, Olio simply is a care collaboration technology that drives to build an ecosystem for our hospital providers to providers within different silos to communicate and collaborate in real time more efficiently. Ben shares the current status of Olio, and that it is a team of 15 people, evenly split between product and sales and marketing.

Now, healthcare professionals are being forced to work together, and there needs to be secure, really efficient ways for them to do their jobs.
— Ben Forrest

He details the length of the sales cycle and the difficulty Olio faces in breaking through the noise in the healthcare technology industry to reach their customers. He also illustrates the impact that aging baby boomers have on healthcare, and how Olio is building their roadmap to address the changes that are coming to the industry.

Topics In The Episode

  • Delivery and implementation of the platform within their customer’s networks.

  • Differentiation between Olio and electronic medical records (EMRs)

  • Driving philosophies of Olio

  • Measuring success

  • Marketing strategies to reach their customers

Contact info

Website: https://www.olio.health/

Ben’s Email: ben@olio.health

General Email: hello@olio.health


Mike Kelly:                          Welcome to the Starter Competitors Podcast. Today we have Ben Forrest, who's the founder and CEO of Olio. Ben, welcome to the show.

Ben Forrest:                       Thank you for having me, Mike. Appreciate it.

Mike Kelly:                          Let's start with a quick overview of Olio. What do you guys do?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah, thank you. We're in the healthcare technology industry, very emerging, innovative market just due to the changes in healthcare. Olio simply is a care collaboration technology that drives every day to build an ecosystem for our hospital provider, break down some siloed environments that allow the providers to communicate and collaborate in real time a little bit more efficiently.

Mike Kelly:                          Care collaboration technology. I have no idea what that actually means.

Ben Forrest:                       I know. Let me put this in real world terms. You guys use Slack?

Mike Kelly:                          Yeah.

Ben Forrest:                       Collaboration technology, right? Easy within your own walls, the build teams, and now with Slack's technology, you're doing that with outside sources. You can do awesome things and Slack will ... In healthcare, a patient's journey touches a lot of different providers, and all those entities are siloed. They all work independently. And with the changes in how healthcare is being delivered, and most importantly providers, healthcare providers, clinicians are getting paid, they're being forced to work together now for the first time.

Ben Forrest:                       You just can't do your job at the hospital and then the patient goes to respiratory therapy and just be like, "Okay. Good luck. Do your job." Now, providers, healthcare professionals are being forced to work together, and there needs to be secure, really efficient ways for them to do their jobs. So we bring them together, centering them around the patient, and we also give them the topic of which they're going to discuss.

Ben Forrest:                       We don't just say, "Hey, Dr. Williams and a respiratory therapist, Mrs. Williams," whatever, Mrs. Smith, "patient's name," we say, "Here's patient John Doe. He has COPD. Here's what the physician needs to know about that patient. Respiratory therapist, can you help us with that information as you're treating the patient, since they've have left the hospital?" Then the final step of that is bringing those entities together, those folks together so that when things arise, or get off course, those parties can now work together more efficiently.

Mike Kelly:                          That's an awesome description, which sparks a ton of questions.

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah, that's all right. Bring it on.

Mike Kelly:                          No, no. That's great. Does everybody in that ecosystem need to opt in upfront or can the hospital just dynamically pull in a respiratory therapist who maybe isn't on the platform by default? Like how does that all work?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah. It's something that, as you find a product market fit, you try to figure out then how are you going to deliver it, right? Like, all right, cool. This is good. Everybody likes it. This is going to work. This is going to be great. Our paying customer is the health system. All of these health systems already organically have these preferred post-acute networks, these entities that their patients get referred to that provide care after they leave the hospital.

Ben Forrest:                       Our message to them is a little bit of a disruptor, and it's a different way to think, and we hope, and we look for as we're selling progressive innovative health systems is this preferred network is great that you, you've focused on certain skilled nursing facilities which basically is a nursing home. You've figured out home health entities you enjoy working with. You think that they provide good care. We think the next step of innovation or being progressive is to procreate this digital network, so we sell our product to the hospital. They then invite their preferred and whomever really they decide they want to invite to use the product. We spend a ton of time building, educating all parties within that ecosystem that we're building, and then roughly 6 months later, we return this really functional digital network that allows folks, much like Slack, now you're kind of off and running and you're dealing with problems maybe you didn't even know existed in the past. So we create that as our hospital customer tells us to do so.

Mike Kelly:                          Perfect. And then are you an EMR as well, or are you taking all that data that potentially happens on the platform and funneling that into an EMR? Like how does all that work?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah, so we stay away from the whole EMR world completely, and it's a hard line that we are going to stay on, probably forever.

Mike Kelly:                          You're a smart man.

Ben Forrest:                       It's our opinion that it's better that Olio ... We have a couple driving philosophies that we are going to stick to come hell or high water, quite frankly, is that for ... Olio is going to be a very simple, appealing, great user experience for the healthcare user. EMR is none of those things. We're going to be an incredibly secure product. But we want to stand above the EMR, bring folks together, create teams with our technology, center it around the patient, and make it super user-friendly. So the minute we start doing these EMR integrations, we lose a lot of the simplicity. In a lot of ways, we use a little bit of the control of where we want to take the product. It becomes another thing that's integrated with the EMR.

Ben Forrest:                       So many a smart person in healthcare would say, "Ah, those guys, they're missing that." But our data that we did last year was phenomenal, and we didn't integrate with an EMR. You're gaining adoption. We've got large health system adoption. We've got small, county hospital adoption, and the EMR is not the end-all, be-all. It sometimes is thought that way.

Mike Kelly:                          My next question, you did a beta last year. You got some adoption with some larger health systems and county hospitals. Rattle off any other kind of status, if you have any metrics you're willing to share, could be size of the company, funding, revenue, whatever.

Ben Forrest:                       Sure. I'll kind of go at maybe high-level and then drive down and we maybe piece this together, but so, again, set out to launch our product this past January. That was our goal. We met that. It was actually January 10, which is 0110, which kind of looks a little bit like Olio. So our marketing team, kudos to them for a little creative work, and we'll do some stuff in every January to kind of celebrate that day.

Mike Kelly:                          Well done. That's good.

Ben Forrest:                       But raised $2.5 million. We are extremely proud of the fact that we got to market and we were able to take on customers, be secure, be mobile, do single sign-on, all the things you've got to do to really, every one of our customers is an enterprise-level customer. There's no such thing as even a county hospital is a large organization. We're really proud of the fact that we stood that up for about $1.2 million. Most healthcare technologies take a tremendous amount of resources, so we're really super proud of that.

Ben Forrest:                       Like you mentioned, we engage with an orthopedic group named Central Indiana Orthopedics last summer. We said, "Hey, we've got this secure product. There's for sure major gaps that we're going to need to figure out, uncover." But we need to put it in play, which is really difficult if you're looking, you're trying to build a product market fit in a very regulated technical industry. You can't even just go give your product to people without a four-month IT review and legal review to say, "You're doing things appropriately."

Ben Forrest:                       So we engaged with them. We rolled out in October, and we can't be happier. We have basically, I mentioned that ecosystem or that network. We've built this digital network from Marion down to Fishers, which from the Central Indiana Orthopedics physicians, their teams, and 19 different skilled nursing facilities. So if you think about that, that orthopedic group was operating individually with 19 different downstream referral providers, so they were doing something they had to reproduce over and over and over. They now have standardized the way they interact, the way they get information on how their patients are progressing, with all 19 of those. Everything comes to a mobile app or our web app, and they essentially, kind of that Slack mindset, can collaborate in real time and do what they need to do. So we're really, really proud of that, really excited about Inside Indiana Business article from last week that that group has cut their length of stay, which is dollars that ultimately affects their bottom line, in half. And that's our beta, so we're really excited about the hospitals.

Ben Forrest:                       We're implementing and onboarding right now that the ability to get out of, you know, I don't want to say it's not an important diagnosis, orthopedics and total joint replacement, things of that nature. It is. But to have greater collaboration around a congestive heart failure patient or a patient with COPD or all of those things and diabetes, bringing together talent and educated minds to work together in real time is something we're super excited about. The market needs it, doesn't have it, and we're excited to see where it goes.

Mike Kelly:                          While you were rattling that off, like one of the questions I wrote down was, how do you measure success? And then you almost immediately said, "Cut the length of stay in half," which is fantastic.

Ben Forrest:                       Yep.

Mike Kelly:                          What are some of the other ways that you, as a team, you think about success? Like what does success look like for one of your customers when they implement it? What are some of the other signs that they would see that would tell you, like, yes, this was a good investment on behalf of that hospital system?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah, so one of the things I love to do is be like, "So what if we took the product away from you?" You know, specifically, like our hospital users. Like what if we just unplugged this and make you go back to the way where you literally had to drive to the nursing home, walk down the halls, check and see how the patient's doing. If something's not right, figure out who you need to talk to. Like what we've done is unplug all of that. Like, you think about it, we are now making these hospital folks a message receiver versus somebody chasing information, which is a huge impact for them.

Ben Forrest:                       We mentioned length-of-stay, which is very important. It's economics. It's what the reality is, money talk. Every institution is driven by the dollar. And this is an economic thing, too, and it's what hospitals are trying to avoid is readmissions and patients coming back. One of the things we are super excited about is we've now got these amazing clusters of people centered around the patient and we've given them a way to hit, in essence, an escalation button, and say, "Hey, something's going on here. This is a problem."

Ben Forrest:                       We've had quite a few of these escalations, and so far, our longest time from when that button in our technology is pushed to a hospital user responding is 8 minutes, which is unbelievable, in our opinion. So that is like the patient fell at the nursing home, something's going on. What should we do? Should we send them back to the hospital? They're escalating them in Olio, putting some information on what that event looked like, what happened, and then that's notifying the key stakeholders on the hospital side to rally around the patient. They start working together in Olio, and ultimately, things are improving in regards to that patient's journey. So it's the everyday stuff and I'd love to give you two hours of clinical things that have happened, but ultimately your listeners will probably lose some interest at some point.

Mike Kelly:                          Right.

Ben Forrest:                       But we geek out on that stuff.

Mike Kelly:                          That's cool.

Ben Forrest:                       And probably more so, the business side is great, and revenue's fun to go chase, and closing deals is a big part of it, but when a patient has a high fever and their wound is red and they're in a ton of pain and you get folks centered around a patient in under 3 minutes in Olio and a new trend pathway of care is established, like, that's the stuff you tell people about and feel good. And then I'll take that a next step. Like, that's the stuff we recruit with. When we talk to a talented engineer or product person, there's a lot of product to build, and everybody's hiring to build it, right?

Mike Kelly:                          Yep.

Ben Forrest:                       And we just think the scope of work and the impact that they could have could be a big thing, and so it's part of our culture. Our current team speaks to it. They talk about their own building some of those escalation features, like software dev, they're not healthcare people, but they built that. They scoped it out. They figured out the best way to do it, and it's making an impact, so that's something we recruit with, big-time.

Mike Kelly:                          How big is the team today?

Ben Forrest:                       Team's 15. It's pretty much almost evenly split between product and sales and marketing and a little executive obviously, but we're going to need to grow pretty quick. If I had unlimited cash, we'd be hiring all the time. It's just, as does everybody in my seat. But yeah, just being centrally focused on keeping our product simple and secure.

Mike Kelly:                          When you think of competition for Olio, who comes to mind?

Ben Forrest:                       You know, it's an interesting question because I actually, I believe that it's good for us to seek out our competitors and understand what they do and see their idea on how they're solving problems in healthcare looks like. The status quo, as we just kind of discussed in our introduction to Olio, is very, a lot of ways, the world we're up against. Very rarely are we like, "Ah, we're doing this, so we're good." We even get confused, and they're like, "Oh, actually, you're not a competitor of that company. Totally good. Let's keep the conversation."

Ben Forrest:                       A company we hear a lot is a company called Patient Ping, which is a technology. Kind of just lets alerts different folks when a patient jumps around, ends up in different care environments. We're a lot more clinical and more involved, more collaborative than that. It's more of just kind of a ping and their name. That's the one that comes up the most in regards to a burden to take the conversation a little bit further, because they think we're one and the same.

Mike Kelly:                          Yep.

Ben Forrest:                       We very much stick to an account-based marketing strategy, and so even when that objection is heard, we swarm around that thought and change that opinion as quick as we can. That's the one ... Even it's the EMR, you know? We use Epic and, I'm sorry ... The hospital uses Epic, and they allow us to portal in, and so, or we let our post-acute or skilled nursing providers, home health providers, portal in, and that solves the ... Well, again, a little bit of enlightenment, and that objection's gone pretty quick.

Mike Kelly:                          Yeah. How long is the sales cycle?

Ben Forrest:                       It's long. That's probably the most frustrating part of what we do. I'll give you an example. Five hospital health system that we are working with right now, we got a commitment to implement Olio in October, and we are just now getting on out of the gates through legal and compliance. So it's probably one the short end six months, on the long end, two years, but, shoot. I mean, I guarantee we have run into somebody that's much longer than that.

Mike Kelly:                          And then when you do an implementation, how long does that take?

Ben Forrest:                       It's not too bad. It's roughly 90 days for us. Depending on obviously the health system size. It gets easier because, as we succeed with one health system in a market, they're using the same post-acute partners-

Mike Kelly:                          Oh, right.

Ben Forrest:                       So once we start to have some success in a market, we don't have to go out and invite those post-acute partners. They're actually geeked, because now they get to do the same thing with two health systems.

Mike Kelly:                          Have you found any pull from the post-acute health partners, where they're pulling in other health systems, like are bringing them to the table?

Ben Forrest:                       Just out of our beta, we're being successful in Indianapolis market because the post-acute teams are getting called to the hospital to have these weekly meetings to update patient progress, and they are the ones that are like, "Hey, we work with this small orthopedic group using this product called Olio, and like, it's just easier. Can you do that?" And that's led to business for us-

Mike Kelly:                          Nice.

Ben Forrest:                       That's a story, as we get bigger, customers with bigger bandwidth, we're really hopeful that we're going to have probably by, oh, Labor Day, we're going to have 200 plus post-acute entities using Olio, and that's a sales force, in a lot of ways, for us. So that's great.

Mike Kelly:                          I'm going to struggle to articulate this question, I think, because I just don't know that much about healthcare systems in general. But I have to imagine, if you're a large healthcare system, you are just inundated with technology providers who can help. Right?

Ben Forrest:                       For sure.

Mike Kelly:                          Part of that's because there's so much low-hanging fruit in the American healthcare system. There's a lot of things that could be better.

Ben Forrest:                       Right.

Mike Kelly:                          And part of that is because there's so much money, right? And that even if it's not an earth-shattering technology, somebody's probably trying to sell it. So how do you cut through that noise when you try to reach out to a new health system?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah, I think that, the timing of that question is perfect. You know, we've launched our product in January, but we've been trying to solicit, market, whatever you want to call it. And one of the early things that we uncovered is, like, you can't just be noise. You can't just be like touches and call logs and the effort behind it. It's not just an effort play. There's a ton of folks getting inundated with all things. Like take technology, if you're in a hospital, period, there's the medical device world. There's the pharmaceutical world. There's-

Mike Kelly:                          Selling bedsheets.

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah, they're just conditioned to, one, they're trying to, folks in that world are trying to treat patients. They're not doing deals, right? They're supply chain, whatever. But it's an environment where we take the focus, and we use the word help all the time. So if we're not helping our customer to understand their plight in regards to maybe it's the policy that's been written that how Medicare is going to pay for the care that's provided, helping our customer understand how this like longer stretch of time, this episode of care, affects each person in the hospital. So we do a really good job, I think, of A) targeting the right individuals within a health system that A) can do something once they get the message and it's received, can act on it, they have the problems that Olio solves for. So we do a lot of efforts to educate those teams.

Ben Forrest:                       I love to get in meetings and ask about like, simple questions, like what do you do with your sick patients? I'm talking really sick folks that are high-risk, that are in your hospital. They've got to leave at some point. Like you can't live at a hospital. Like that's not a possibility. And so what happens when they leave? And then simply just, everyone, for the most part, if you're in healthcare, has an opinion on that, and at least wants to discuss it, some more than others, but it's usually a good conversation, and it gets us headed in the right direction.

Ben Forrest:                       We simply ask, like, from a sales and marketing perspective, we're not, we don't want to screw around with non-innovative, progressive health systems. We say, like, "Hey, real quick, that's how you handle your sick patients? Is there a better way?" Or "do you think you have it figured out?" And if they're like, "Yeah, we're amazing. We're efficient. We're good. We're economically good. We're clinically good." We move on. We go find another target. So we try to get to that understanding pretty quick through the process of educating our target, and then keep the story going.

Mike Kelly:                          How have you built the team, the sales and marketing team internally that can do that? Is that, and your answer can be, I'm in the progress ... It can't scale yet. But I'd be super interested, I mean, because that is, like, what you've articulated in a B2B sales cycle, particularly longer B2B sales cycles, is the dream, right? Like so what have you done or what are you doing to build that engine that can maybe do that where maybe you're not even in the room anymore?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. And that is definitely a goal, is so we kind of, we structured things a little bit differently in a start-up with 15 total headcount. We've got, let's see, we've got 5 dedicated folks right now to sales and marketing from this perspective, what I'm going to explain. So essentially, 2 BDR type reps, business development folks that we've identified kind of that initial discovery of a health system and account, what needs to transpire? What needs to go on? And that, in our world, is focusing on a specific type of leadership and physicians. WE build out an account tree, per se, and we isolate those folks, and then we work with our marketing team to create not only a digital strategy, but full-on account approach of what we're going to do, how we're going to do it.

Ben Forrest:                       We actually currently are only calling on 24 accounts in the Midwest, period. No more, no less. So we get pretty detailed. Every health system has a different approach. They all have a different kind of strategy in their world. So we focus on that. So the BDR guy or gal is driving early information about that account. A sales exec works with a one-on-one with the BDR person, so they're a team. They, in the beginning, we pretty much work together cohesively. Now that we're kind of a little bit more mature in our processes, BDR is doing some things independently, building the kind of account matrix, if you will. And then we're progressing this to the marketing strategy subsequently to what will be deliverables we could give to educate to this better way, and then ultimately a lot of the sales exec is a very seasoned healthcare person. They can answer questions about insurance and policies and Medicare and obviously knows our technology inside and out.

Ben Forrest:                       We're able to take like maybe not so much a tech or even healthcare person in that entry level and put them with a seasoned sales person that gets this, knows it, can answer questions, can be a consultant in some level. And ultimately, we get to the magical day of demonstrating how Olio works. We build customized demos for our customers so they can actually see their people, their hospitals, their skilled nursing facilities, and see this magical better way. And that's been pretty effective. I'm excited to see even more what we can do as we get bigger budgets to scale like even the event marketing strategy, center it around kind of these different populations within the health system that go to different association meetings, what have you, as well as even just the content we can create as we get more use case stories and more feedback on how patient care is being improved. So long answer-

Mike Kelly:                          That's a great answer.

Ben Forrest:                       A ton of thought has gone in. That has not happened quickly, no doubt.

Mike Kelly:                          That's a great answer. How do you think about, this is a total gear change ... How do you think about a product roadmap in this space, and how do you decide on what you're going to do next?

Ben Forrest:                       Oh, man. That's an amazing question, and it seems to be like I'm Gumby, getting pulled in every direction sometimes because everybody's got a problem, right? Like what's been happening recently is we hire more talent. Our chief operating officer is named Sean Mullins. He came to us really seasoned healthcare guy. Spent time in the Bush White House, worked for IU health, but came to us, was the director of corporate strategy at Anthem. He's got a different take on this, if you remember. Like my experience was very centered around the physician in the hospital. He knows the insurance world. He knows the employer world. You know, as more insurance companies want to get more clinical, employers want to have more management of their own employees as they go out and receive high-cost services, so it's been exciting to see the versions of Olio possibly go in other directions.

Ben Forrest:                       I look at the revenue goal, right? And so right now, we're pretty strong on our revenue goal, and I don't want to take what is a pretty small product team and get them off course. So we just continue to build the product road map. It's long, and the dev team will tell you. Like, there's no shortage of work at Olio. Jobs are secure, which is the way it should be, in my opinion.

Mike Kelly:                          Yes.

Ben Forrest:                       So we basically, we use UX a ton, just design to go validate if the concept is good. It makes sense. That's been super valuable, especially in healthcare because it's such a gnarly, UX-design space that the user's used to just seeing that Windows 95-type technical product. So it's good to go show them like this simple, easy-on-the-eyes, modern platform, and then kind of look for product market fit that way.

Mike Kelly:                          Is the patient involved in Olio today?

Ben Forrest:                       Not today. It's on the roadmap. We're a little ways away from it. Very much just trying to bring folks together to treat the patient at this point.

Mike Kelly:                          It's all good. When you look at the landscape of competitors that you're educating past today in the sales cycle, where do you see them going from a market trend perspective, and how does that inform what you think you guys need to do as a next step?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah. So it's also a good question, so ... There is a lot, and it actually ties in perfectly with the question you just asked, so a ton of technology is being built, and rightfully so, and we root them on, and I hope they kill it and ultimately, you know, maybe take their product a different way, is these technologies that engage with the patient. Like, almost even by disease state, so like a company has an orthopedic technology that engages with an orthopedic surgeon and a total joint patient, or there's another company that'll have cardiovascular surgery products. So there's like all these silos of technologies that communicate to the patient.

Ben Forrest:                       There's the technology that reminds you of your appointments and all that good stuff, right? So there's this big push to actually integrate with the patient. Olio, like, we think about the sickest of the sick. You know, like, these folks aren't doing anything with technology. They are in bad shape. They're probably average age of a patient that's in our database right now is 81 years old. So we're talking about folks that, you know, I hope this doesn't come off insensitive, but these are high-cost patients. They cost the system a lot of money, whether it's Medicare or a private insurance company. They need help because they're older, they're sicker, they need more people surrounding them. And, you know, when you think about where the population is going, there is 11,000 people aging into Medicare every day. Every day. And I think about that.

Ben Forrest:                       That trend, it keeps going until 2030. So the boomers are going into healthcare. There's a reason why all you see on the news, when the political mess isn't actually being discussed, when you get into issues, is about healthcare. The U.S. economy ... 18% of GDP is healthcare. Closest cut in other countries is 11%. So 7 cents on every dollar, we've got to make up, as a country. Like that's a big deal. That's why we've got to cut costs, so that's why our product roadmap, everything we do, as we think competitors, is squarely focused on this Medicare population, how can we bring technology to center smart, clinical minds around this aging, sick patient that needs more help?

Ben Forrest:                       So we live that world. That's what we wake up every day trying to solve for, and our competitors want to engage technically with our patient, with their patient. We're all for them doing that. We just, we don't know if that fits in our product roadmap right now.

Mike Kelly:                          Got it. That's a great answer. Do you have a system for regularly looking at the competitive landscape and seeing what new products have entered the market that you need to be aware of, and if you do, what does that look like?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah. I wish we had maybe a better system. I think you kind of get, you live in your bubble, and you go to grind, and you're, you know, in my seat, you're worried about all sorts of things, and we, through a marketing channel, we have competitive information that we try to distribute and educate to our targets.

Ben Forrest:                       One of the things we're able to do is keep a pulse on some of the initiatives and policies that come out through the government, and that somehow, in a way, allows us to do research on products that maybe we'll be able to solve some of these new policies that are being-

Mike Kelly:                          Yeah, right on.

Ben Forrest:                       So the government actually gives us a pretty good blueprint, especially in like senior care and how the Medicare population is going to be treated or cared for. And we're able to pretty quickly say, okay, this is a, just to make it simple, like, if you think about a patient's plight or care continuum, you know, it starts in their home, and at some point, something occurs. They have an event. They go to the hospital. So we just validate, is the technology after they leave the hospital or before or while they're in the hospital? So we segment competitors that way and think about it in that regard.

Mike Kelly:                          Great.

Ben Forrest:                       So pretty detailed on like, okay, that's good. We don't really do anything with the patient while they're, prior to discharging from the hospital.

Mike Kelly:                          Yeah. Are you, again, I'm going to struggle to articulate this question, because it's an interesting one, because I don't think about healthcare that much. But maybe I'll set it up. So, obviously, there's tons of change in healthcare, both technologically, which is very market-driven, as well as, you know, regulatory change. Healthcare in the United States feels, to me at least, fragile in that, you know, depending on what policy changes there are, that could have huge, massive implications down the chain.

Mike Kelly:                          Do you guys view that, I guess ability for disruption overall in the healthcare market as exciting because that creates opportunity for you, or is that fear-inducing in that, yeah, what we're doing right now might be fine because it's the way the Medicare rules are, but, you know, four years from now, maybe it's turned upside down and now suddenly the incentives have completely changed, and we've got to pivot and figure that out. How do you guys think about that, I guess, more systemic risk of just the American healthcare system overall and you're like, you're just a small, tiny ship floating on that ocean.

Ben Forrest:                       No doubt. Yeah. I'll kind of like use your words a little bit. You've got this big overall thing. We're this little tiny ship, so what are you going to focus on or maybe try to not get too excited about product or markets that you could play in or get too freaked out that, oh my gosh, this policy's done this, and what do we do?

Ben Forrest:                       So we just, we stay focused on math, quite frankly. Like, the reality is that the government is forced to lower healthcare costs. And really, what that means is they have to look at healthcare as an episode of care. So right now, the early move towards that is to say when an event happens, 90 days from the time of that event happens, the government, and now, which is an area where they're leading and the Anthems and the United Healthcares and Humanas are seeing some success here and kind of following suit, is we're not going to pay you individually for all the things that happen over 90 days. We're going to give you some money, and you all manage how that money gets spent, like, you know, kind of like a business owner would have to do, right?

Ben Forrest:                       I don't foresee any changes in this drive, you hear buzzwords in healthcare, value-based healthcare or an episodic payment model. Take the buzzwords out. Like, unless the Baby Boomers are going away and some phenomenon doesn't occur that I don't know about or occurs that I don't know about, the math says that more resources or just markets are going to be created that enable a lower cost of care to be delivered.

Mike Kelly:                          I'm so happy with that answer, you have no idea. You can't even know. It's very satisfying.

Ben Forrest:                       I don't know why, but I'll take it.

Mike Kelly:                          Because any time you open with, let's just focus on the math, you know, I'm going to be happy.

Ben Forrest:                       Okay, good.

Mike Kelly:                          It's going to be a good answer.

Ben Forrest:                       Well, it's, you know, numbers don't lie. It makes, and it's easy to get everybody on the same page, right?

Mike Kelly:                          Yeah.

Ben Forrest:                       So it's simple for us.

Mike Kelly:                          If somebody who's listening would like to learn more about Olio or get in touch with you, how could they do that?

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah, pretty simple. You can email me, ben@olio.health. I'm not bashful about reaching out or replying. Olio.health is our website. Hello@olio.health is just kind of our general mailbox if you want to see a demo or anything of that nature. You can go there. And we are, we tell our story to anybody willing to listen. It's kind of fun to watch, you get demo requests or whatever that looks like. You know, somebody hears about Olio that maybe works at a home health company in Texas, and we're nowhere near doing business in Texas at this point, but it's somebody an opportunity to go do their first thing, a demo even, what the heck. You know? So, if you tap us on the shoulder, we're going to probably reach out.

Mike Kelly:                          Awesome. Ben, thank you so much.

Ben Forrest:                       Yeah, thank you, Michael. I appreciate it.